Hello all,

Please vote in the Vote box to the right, if you haven't already done so. Now, let's discuss this: Do we want the QuickEdit functionality in next WebCoder? Microsoft has recently released a patch, that makes QuickEdit unusable on a bunch of systems (including my own) in WebCoder 5. I guess I might be able to fix this, although I really don't know. However, I'm wondering if we need it at all? I my self never use it, mostly because it creates code that I can't live with, but also because I'm not a big WYSIWYG fan. I do get mails from people who seem to be using the QuickEdit feature a lot, but then again: Wouldn't these people be better of by using an editor like Dreamweaver, if they really like WYSIWYG?

I don't wish to use a lot of time on improving WebCoder's QuickEdit feature, for two reasons: WebCoder is NOT a WYSIWYG editor, and no matter what I do, it will still be based on an old ActiveX component from Microsoft, that produces horrible code. Besides, a lot of support questions are directly related to the QuickEdit feature, because it simply doesn't work on all computers, even if they have IE installed. It makes WebCoder less stable, which really bugs me.

How do you feel about the QuickEdit feature? Is it important for WebCoder (and you?), or would it be better to leave it out and perhaps get a more stable product?

I do not use QuickEdit, and I think that it should be leaved out because people who use it may get better results using "real" WYSIWYG editors.

In my experience with webcoder, stabillity is sometimes a problem. It would be great if removing the feature could increse stabillity.

I never use it (I have it turned off) so I wouldn't miss it.

Mark

I never use it (I have it turned off) so I wouldn't miss it.

Ditto

Okay, you guys don't seem to care much about QuickEdit. I would like to hear from someone who actually does, though. Could be interesting

nah mate!

chuck it out!

its not used, you are right.
if people want WYSIWYG, then they can goto Dream Weaver!

Honestly, dont worry about it.

I would love having the current bugs fixed rather than adding new features etc...

Yes I do use QuickEdit.

Please keep it!!

I have found a few scenarios where using QuickEdit is much much better than using the code editor:

1) You have a basic table already structured for display of certain tabular data, and you want to update or fill in that data. In this case, I use the code editor to set up the basic structure, and then QuickEdit to enter tha actual data. I can see much much more clearly exactly where I am putting my data. Editing the code to enter the data is awkward, and prone to error; data sometimes is entered in the wrong row or column (especially if you have some rowspans or colspans)... even with the cleanest structural code (with formatting done in CSS).

2) Basic preliminary page layout in HTML... trying out some designs before creating final code. Of course, my first design layouts are done as hand-sketches, or sometimes done in a graphic program (Visio or Photoshop or PSP depending on the type of layout). I usually use QuickEdit for this, and then once I have a basic layout, I either edit it in the editor, or create it clean from scratch in the editor.

3) In debugging complex page layouts which aren't quite working right, but are close-- I will use QuickEdit and in a copy of my HTML, I enter some random text (usually "???" or "AAA") in a spot in the layout where I am not happy with how the layout is coming together. Then I can go to the code, and see exactly where this text got dropped into the code. This has saved me pulling out gobs of hair a few times.

4) Quick pages- where exact layout and totally optimized code are not critical-- QuickEdit is perfect for this. It lets me create a page in virtually no time at all.

Soooo.. please, please, please keep QuickEdit!!!!

PS I still use HomeSite v4.5 today whenever one of these 4 situations arises!!.. Would love to replace it with TSW!!!

Thanks

Hi,

Nice to see some good arguments to keep QuickEdit. However, I do wonder a bit about this one:

>PS I still use HomeSite v4.5 today whenever one of these 4 situations arises!!.. Would love to replace it with TSW!!!

Why do you use HomeSite for this, if you wish to do it with QuickEdit?

Hi,

Nice to see some good arguments to keep QuickEdit. However, I do wonder a bit about this one:

>PS I still use HomeSite v4.5 today whenever one of these 4 situations arises!!.. Would love to replace it with TSW!!!

Why do you use HomeSite for this, if you wish to do it with QuickEdit?

Thanks for the reply Kasper....

"You caught me!!"... LOL

What I meant to say was:
"I continued to use HomeSite 4.5 because of it's QuickEdit-like feature called "Design", long after it was 'replaced' by v5.0 and v5.5 (versions 5.0 and 5.5 had removed the 'Design' feature). Now that I have discovered TSW, I am switching."

The ideal Webpage/Website development tool for me would have HTML coding, CSS design/coding, and JS coding/debugging "intimate with each other". As such, the QuickEdit feature functions almost like a the layout engine of a desktop publishing program like Adobe InDesign or QuarkXPress.

Microsoft has recently released a patch, that makes QuickEdit unusable on a bunch of systems (including my own) in WebCoder 5.

//please, excuse me for my english,
//it's not my native language

what was exactly that patch? I've downloaded webcoder only because of it's QuickEdit feature and found what it's not working on my box...
I've w2k pro with all recent updates/fixes installed and ready to uninstall some of them to try QuickEdit.

can you help me?

Hello all,

Please vote in the Vote box to the right, if you haven't already done so. Now, let's discuss this: Do we want the QuickEdit functionality in next WebCoder? Microsoft has recently released a patch, that makes QuickEdit unusable on a bunch of systems (including my own) in WebCoder 5. I guess I might be able to fix this, although I really don't know. However, I'm wondering if we need it at all? I my self never use it, mostly because it creates code that I can't live with, but also because I'm not a big WYSIWYG fan. I do get mails from people who seem to be using the QuickEdit feature a lot, but then again: Wouldn't these people be better of by using an editor like Dreamweaver, if they really like WYSIWYG?

I don't wish to use a lot of time on improving WebCoder's QuickEdit feature, for two reasons: WebCoder is NOT a WYSIWYG editor, and no matter what I do, it will still be based on an old ActiveX component from Microsoft, that produces horrible code. Besides, a lot of support questions are directly related to the QuickEdit feature, because it simply doesn't work on all computers, even if they have IE installed. It makes WebCoder less stable, which really bugs me.

How do you feel about the QuickEdit feature? Is it important for WebCoder (and you?), or would it be better to leave it out and perhaps get a more stable product?

Hello all,

Please vote in the Vote box to the right, if you haven't already done so. Now, let's discuss this: Do we want the QuickEdit functionality in next WebCoder?

F*ck a duck. I didnt mean to hit post before, I guess I got all flustered at the prospect of you removing Quick edit.

PLEASE DONT remove it. I've literally just bought a commercial licensed TSW Pro BECAUSE of the quick edit. I love the customisability of TSW and for the type of websites I make having quick edit saves me SO much time, it's why I chose it over Topstyle.

I've already got a nice array of personalised buttons and everything.

Thank you and goodnight. (maybe you could put an option to not install it for the many who dont need it...?)

Duncan

Hi

I thinkQuickEdit is a good feature, but I also think M$-Editor is false. There Is a Editor solution from Mozilla.
And there is another great thing: http://www.xstandard.com/
And XHTML based WYSIWYG. Creates wonderful code:
Mistake: it is not clear formated (spaces or linebreaks doesn't) exist. The Lite-Version is free, and really easy to implement. A Tidy for that Code and it looks wonderful in the Editor.
But the shit is, that that thing is 6MB big.

Just an idea

XStandard looks promising despite it's large size... obviously though we don't want to bloat Webcoder that much.

Are there any other alternatives out there? I'd love to see something different in place that doesn't product MS's ugly code.

The downside of course is that the html editing components are already installed with IE, so any other editor is going to add some filesize to the program...

Unless... I don't know if there are other alternatives available that could be installed by the user, but it would be nice if there were, and a screen asking "which HTML editing component do you want to use", Xstandard [not installed], MSHTML [installed], Mozilla Component [not installed], etc.


-Kevin

I tried requesting a download of the XStandard, but never heard back from them (tried 2 times, with different e-mail addresses). Did any of you have better luck than me?

Hi!
I’ve just found your software, download it and tested it for the first time, right this afternoon. I must say I’m impressed! I loved the html/xhtml editor, the CSS editor and the intelligent way all the panels were connected. I thought that it was intelligent too to preview the pages directly in the browsers and not in some rendering engine of your own, as Macromedia does with its Design tab, which I hardly can use… except for inserting text!... You see, I’m Portuguese and our language is full of accents and letters that require special coding. It would be a pain to correct all the text in the pages and code all the special characters like ç and so on… Without that Design tab, or the Quick Edit (in this case), I would have to write the software in Word, save the text as .txt, open it in Composer or NVU and copy the source and then paste it back in your software. I am truly interested in your software, but I would like to know if there is any other alternative to this complex procedure, as Quick Edit is not functioning in my platform as well…

Best regards!

Roberto

Hi!
I’ve just found your software, download it and tested it for the first time, right this afternoon. I must say I’m impressed! I loved the html/xhtml editor, the CSS editor and the intelligent way all the panels were connected. I thought that it was intelligent too to preview the pages directly in the browsers and not in some rendering engine of your own, as Macromedia does with its Design tab, which I hardly can use… except for inserting text!... You see, I’m Portuguese and our language is full of accents and letters that require special coding. It would be a pain to correct all the text in the pages and code all the special characters like ç and so on… Without that Design tab, or the Quick Edit (in this case), I would have to write the software in Word, save the text as .txt, open it in Composer or NVU and copy the source and then paste it back in your software. I am truly interested in your software, but I would like to know if there is any other alternative to this complex procedure, as Quick Edit is not functioning in my platform as well…

Best regards!

Roberto

This could also be solved by having webcoder support other charsets than iso-8859-1, thereby portogese and other non-us letters won't have to be written as entities.

While I never use the current QuickEdit in WC, I could see having uses for a WYSIWYG Editing component that behaved better.

A better WYSIWYG feature might attract more novice users who want to learn web coding, but want to start with WYSIWYG before moving into more complex web coding.

Thanks,
John B.

I did some searching online last night and came up with the following:


HTML Editing Components for Delphi:

ProfDHTMLEdit: http://www.profgrid.com/dhtmledit.html
HTMLEdit: http://www.purposesoft.com/page.asp?id={B0265DC5-DB57-42A7-A5AD-7AC62B16CABF}

Also got a link to download the 30-day demo of XStandard and have PM'd that to Kasper.

If anyone knows of any other components please post them!

-Kevin

I tried requesting a download of the XStandard, but never heard back from them (tried 2 times, with different e-mail addresses). Did any of you have better luck than me?

Hi Kaspar,

I checked that XStandard thing. Well, hmm, wouldn't be a reason for me to switch QuickEdit on I guess. However maybe it would be nice for some text editing in large tables. If you want to I can send it by mail to you (~ 5,8MB).

Nikolaus

If you want to I can send it by mail to you (~ 5,8MB).

Ah much esier, download here:

http://xstandard.com/get/dbvfawdi/lite/

Nikolaus

why not make quickedit optional...

or ONLY available in pro...

Im not using quickedit, i think wysiwyg is for newbies. I dont consider myself a newb but thats beside the point. I can imagine people need the wysiwyg function but for languages like PHP its not very usefull. lots of crap (local servers = bad!) to make it work for very little people...

I think in common the more experienced coders wont use it and to check if things work using a dedugger OR just test it on the actuall server works better.

why not make quickedit optional...

It is! You are free to choose to disable the tab.

I've activated it on the Preferences dialog and as soon as I close WC5 and start it up again a warning says it has been automatically desactivated becuase a potential problem has been solved. I got IE 6.0.2900 which is not so old. Is there something I can do to be able to have a try to QuickEdit?

why not make quickedit optional...

It is! You are free to choose to disable the tab.

lol indeed, i just saw the option yes.

Must have overlooked it earlier :S

Hi Jordi,

I've activated it on the Preferences dialog and as soon as I close WC5 and start it up again a warning says it has been automatically desactivated becuase a potential problem has been solved. I got IE 6.0.2900 which is not so old. Is there something I can do to be able to have a try to QuickEdit?

I think upgrading/reinstalling IE has helped for some people, but don't try this unless you really want QuickEdit. To be honest, QuickEdit is not something I'm very proud of, but since some users seem to like it anyway, we're not removing it this time either I guess

for those of you who are interested in WYSIWYG editing, NVU 1.0 was just released (www.nvu.com). true, it's not integrated into WB, but it looks quite promising...

cheers,
o

Hi Jordi,

I've activated it on the Preferences dialog and as soon as I close WC5 and start it up again a warning says it has been automatically desactivated becuase a potential problem has been solved. I got IE 6.0.2900 which is not so old. Is there something I can do to be able to have a try to QuickEdit?

I think upgrading/reinstalling IE has helped for some people, but don't try this unless you really want QuickEdit. To be honest, QuickEdit is not something I'm very proud of, but since some users seem to like it anyway, we're not removing it this time either I guess

I say just leave it in, but don't spend any time updating it when you could be spending the time on something else.

QuickEdit never functioned on my XP pro machine with WebCoder5 nor does it function on my Vista machine with WebCoder2007. Fix it or dump it, I've never even seen the quick edit page do anything but cause a crash. I do think it would be useful if it functioned properly though, just keep that in mind

HaX

I am using phpcoder 2008, which I believe is the latest version of webcoder, on a xp machine. I thought Quickedit was a cut and paste your text by using the mouse. Highlite it then left click to grab it and copy to new location or right click to move it. Now that is something I like and would want, but a graphical edit is not needed. I run firefox and there are a number of add ons that will do this for me.

So, yes on mouse functionality - no to graphic.